Comments on: Thoughts on Women in Ministry

By: Dixie Redmond

Dixie Redmond — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:07:00 +0000

Not sure where you are at with this, but after having worked 7 years in a similar setting I can say the attitude will permeate to other areas.

We are in the process of looking for a church right now, and I immediately ruled out a church that had all men on the elders board, because it tells me something about the culture of the church.

Dixie

By: Jean Gasho-Musuka

Jean Gasho-Musuka — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:13:00 +0000

according to the bible, it is a sin for a woman to be pastor.

By: ellenharoutunian

ellenharoutunian — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:46:00 +0000

This is important stuff. If anything, the message that the silencing or limiting of women gives is that she really is worth less and deserves less respect and that inadvertantly gives a boon to gender-based injustices. We need to get this right.
Becky Pierson has started a conversation about it too at http://www.scribblethat.blogspot.com/

By: Roll Me Over Spirit

Roll Me Over Spirit — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:04:00 +0000

I grew up in an "independant fundamental" baptist church. Women could clean the church, play special music, and prepare communion (but not serve). It was a VERY VERY rare thing to see a woman as an usher.

So, where am I now? I am 30 years old and I have just started classes to become an ordained interfaith minister. Quite the shift!!

Women have been ignored for far too long in the traditional church.

By: Liza

Liza — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:40:00 +0000

Thank you ladies for all of the comments!!! You have been more helpful than you can imagine! It is just nice to know that others out there would be seriously bothered by this also!

My husband is very confused also. I know that he to an extent understand why I am upset, but he obviously does not completely get it due to the simple fact that he is a man has never had to deal with this type of situation.

One good thing is that I think we have come to the decision that this church plant is most likely NOT really what God has been calling us to. Our reasons for believing this are that I just can not calm this feeling in my gut about the elder thing and also, because the plant is about a half hour away and we feel very committed to reaching people right here in the town which we live.

So I am glad that we have gotten at least that much figured out, but we are still quite confused... we feel that we are being called to something... that this is a time of change in our life, but we don't know what that change is. I am hoping that it is right around the corner and that it will give us a good slap in the face so that we know that is what we have been waiting for.

Thanks again for the comments and prayers!!!

Blessings to all!!

By: kathyescobar

kathyescobar — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:01:00 +0000

hey liza, thanks for sharing your dilemma. i am not a frequent commenter on this blog but i try to always read. your post caught my eye. it is quite the dilemma especially when so many of the other things that are part of the core vision of the plant resonate with your heart. a huge red flag for me is always the assumption “well, women can do everything else except for that….” because what it means is that fundamentally the community does not believe in full equality for women. that subtle thing will always be played out in big and small ways. it means that all important critical decisions made in the life of that community through the elder team will never have a women’s voice. period. i personally do not think that is inconsequential, especially in the very important stage of community formation. for me, it would definitely be a deal breaker, but i recognize i am very fortunate to be part of a community where women and men equally share leadership and it’s a nonissue. will be praying for God’s direction and discernment. i do think it will be tough to compromise your convictions, this is the hardest part of tipping over the edge, i think, sometimes there’s no turning back. it will also be very interesting when you get some response back face-to-face and where that leads…best to you on your journey..look forward to hearing where it all leads. it is good for all of us to think “what would i do?” peace and hope, kathy

By: minnowspeaks

minnowspeaks — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:56:00 +0000

Wow! I too was going to recommend you visit Tia Lynn’s blog. He study has helped me. Recently I decided to take a break from the fellowship my family has attended since we moved her five years ago. Shortly after our pastor decided to break with the tradition that had guided our church up until then and allow women to be recognized as pastors he was diagnosed with cancer. He die a year and four months later. The current pastor has gone back to the old guideline. In a conversation I had with him personally he said that in his opinion women could do anything within the Church except be head pastor. (Elder is probably what some Churches call his position if what they mean by elder is the highest position within a specific fellowship). I have tried but cannot find Biblical support for his position. I had been feeling a strong pull to become active in the women’s ministry as a small group leader and to join the prayer team. I was also praying into the possibility of a role in our School if Ministry. Suddenly all of those ideas grew very confused and I began to feel ill equipt to serve in any part of ministry. When I walked in the door it was as if I walked into a box/cage I could see out of but not move out of. I am now taking a break from our fellowship. Other things contributed to my decision to take a break but this experience definately plays a role in my decision. People, like Tia Lynn, who can function gracefully in Complenentarian fellowships when their hearts know these attitudes are based on a lie are rare, and to me awe inspiring people. I have to wonder, given your husband’s response, if he understands the sacrafice he is expecting you to make so that he can do the ministry he wants to do. When you talked about desiring to minister to people who were not a part of the traditional church because of past church hurt, among other reasons,I was surprised to hear that one of the potential causes of such hurt would be allowed to stand–namely the second class status of women within the church. God bless you as you come to a decision on this matter.

By: Amy Baker

Amy Baker — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 01:02:00 +0000

Liza,
wow, i have so many thoughts it’s tough to pick.. the best resources i have found on women in ministry are (one for each “side”) 1. the book slaves, women, and homosexuals (trajectory hermeneutic that has many upset) and 2. a series taught by Kathy Keller at Redeemer presbyterian church, it’s available at their website. (this is one of the few churches that does not allow women elders, that i know of, that still heavily incorporates them in leadership.
Also…I have been a pastor’s wife for 6 years, and I cannot even count the number of things that I have felt VERY strongly against that the church supports. I don’t know if that helps or hurts your decision, but I can really identify with it. I have found that rather than looking for “deal breakers,” I have often viewed myself as a missionary to my own church. That being said, sometimes there are dealbreakers.

By: Euodia

Euodia — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:17:00 +0000

Liza:

You may want to check out some of the resources at Soulation: http://www.soulation.com.

Soulation doesn’t address the question of women in church leadership specifically. One of its focuses is on how women are “fully human, fully-souled” and unique bearers of the imago dei rather than “second class” citizens of the Kingdom. (Hope I got that website correct; if not, just Google.

By: heather weber

heather weber — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:05:00 +0000

Hey Liza,
My heart aches at your story. To feel called of God to a specific area and know that from the get-go there is a ceiling (not even a glass one) that's lower for women than it is for men. I don't know what the right answer is for you, but I can say, as a female pastor on staff in our church, that I would really have to come to terms with God's call to enter a world where I wasn't considered a full equal with men, where mine and other women's voices wouldn't necessarily be weighed as much as mens or even have an opportunity to be heard. I think it's entirely possible that God could call you into a place that is unjust and unfair for a greater purpose and good. However, if I were in your shoes, that would have to be really clear to me. Just in case you are feeling crazy, I absolutely don't think it's a small issue or unimportant to consider and reflect upon as deeply as you are. And I absolutely think that it means women have a different "standing" then men, even if their are no ill-motives toward women, even if there is a foundation of love and care toward all the women in the community.

I would ask yourself whether the policy of no women elders will keep in anyway from using your gifts, participating in the conversations you want to be a part of, and responding to the call of God on your life. If the answer is that this would limit you, then I would take that into serious consideration.

Peace to you,
Heather